Despite the fact that the Mesa Rangers use Dodge Durango's as their enforcement vehicle, they don't earn the 'rapper' status until they get the $5000 22" bling-bling rims and airbag suspension. I wonder if they hold their guns sideways too? Brian Team A.I. > From: "Team Tierra Buena" > Date: 2003/10/01 Wed PM 10:44:06 EDT > To: > Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Report from Pueblo Grande [Long] > > Nice read Steve the only thing I am fuzzy on is what I call you? :) > > > > "Steve" usually gets my attention. :-) I did attend another land management > meeting back in January where I introduced myself as "an unofficial, > unelected representative of a nonexistent organization". > > > > I still need to get back with P Liddy of the Mesa Ranger District and talk > about a cache for the Bull Dog Canyon area....thanks for the reminder > > > > I thought he was a rapper? > > > > Steve > > Team Tierra Buena > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Team Tierra Buena > > To: Arizona Geocaching > > Cc: Mary L. Estes > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:00 PM > > Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Report from Pueblo Grande [Long] > > > > Besides posting this on the azgeocaching.com mailing list, I am copying Mary > Estes, who heads up the Site Steward program, and arranged and facilitated > last night's meeting. I hope that others who attended the meeting will also > post their impressions and opinions, particularly where they disagree with > my views. > > > > The Geocaching community was represented by Marc and Julie (Tamo's > Clan'Destiny), Brian (Team Snaptek and azgeocaching.com), Christy and Joe > (Pet Posse), Mark (Highway Havoc), Bob Renner (Bob Renner), and me. (Did I > forget anyone? My apologies if I did. Lately my memory cells seem to be > flaking off faster than my dandruff.) The land management agencies > represented included the State Historic Preservation Office (which sponsors > the Site Steward program), City of Phoenix, City of Scottsdale, Maricopa > County, Bureau of Land Management, Tonto National Forest, and the Kofa > National Wildlife Refuge outside of Yuma. > > > > I think the atmosphere was very different from the meeting that was held a > year ago. I believe this is due to the fact that the land managers recognize > that most Geocachers want to practice our recreation in a responsible > fashion, and that we have done and continue to do what we can as a "virtual > community" to educate others in what our responsibilities are. I would go so > far as to say that every land management representative in attendance > recognizes the positives in an activity such as Geocaching, and they are > willing to support it insofar as it doesn't conflict with the regulations of > their respective agencies (and we have to remember that every paid land > management representative at that meeting gets their pay from some > government agency or other). > > > > I've preached this before here, but it was said repeatedly last night: The > best thing we can do to prevent problems is to obtain permission before > placing a cache. That's not always the easiest thing in the world to do, and > everyone in attendance recognized that. The issues range from trying to > figure out which agency is responsible for the area where you want to place > the cache, to finding our what that agency's rules are, to finding someone > who actually knows what you're talking about and can help you. But it's > worth the effort. > > > > Everyone also seems to be aware that not every Geocacher in Arizona > subscribes to this mailing list, or is even aware that azgeocaching.com > exists, and that people, particularly newcomers, may go off more in > ignorance than anything else and do something that they shouldn't. I think > it is up to us to do what we can to let new cachers know about resources > such as this mailing list and web site. Brian stated that he would be > updating the links on the web site to reflect some of the new Geocaching > policies we have received (and I'll get you the BLM policy tomorrow, Brian). > And we hope to be able to put together a starter list of permission contacts > for those agencies where we have them. > > > > This seems like a good time to remind everyone of what we came up with after > last year's meeting, which got dubbed "Geo-mentoring". If you own a cache, > and get a log entry from someone who is relatively new (based on their find > count), why not drop them a note welcoming them to Geocaching and letting > them know about azgeocaching.com and the listserv? If anyone would like a > copy of the boilerplate I use for this, drop me an email. > > > > Random notes: The Phoenix Preserve sounds as though they are going to be > enforcing their "no off-trail" policy more strictly. I don't have my copy of > the policy with me here, but everyone who attended got a copy, so I hope > someone will post it in short order. > > > > Tonto National Forest continues to welcome Geocaching, except in designated > wilderness areas and anywhere that would threaten an archaeological site. It > is for the latter reason that they "suggest but do not require" that you > contact the appropriate District Office before you place a cache within > Tonto. > > > > One item that saddened me a little was that Maricopa County Parks and > Recreation announced that they are going to be updating their Geocaching > policy and eliminate the "two-mile rule". But since they want permission > from the Park Supervisor for any caches placed within their parks, I think > it might still be possible to work with them if you have a good location > that's far enough back from the trailhead and not too far (whatever that > means) off the trail. It was nice to hear that the Pet Posse are working > with the county staff to see if they might be able to implement a reduced > "geocaching-only entrance fee". > > > > Kofa NWR has some concerns about some specific caches already placed within > the Refuge, but Susana Henry, the representative from Kofa, told me she > would look into them individually herself. Again, she does not appear to be > opposed to caches within the Refuge, so I would advise anyone planning on > placing a cache down there to contact her at the refuge first. > > > > The question was raised about obtaining land management permission for > virtual caches (the question of whether we can obtain permission for virtual > caches from The Powers What Am at geoaching.com is a separate issue and > irrelevant to this discussion). There are several perspectives on this from > the land management side, but my sense of the consensus was that if the > virtual is located in a maintained public place that permission would not be > necessary, but if the site is off trail or similar than permission should be > requested (although personally I still wouldn't attempt to place a virtual > at the Deer Valley Rock Art Center). > > > > Finally, we decided to try something new when we next have a meeting such as > this. Since the next best thing we can do (other than getting permission for > caches) is to spread the gospel of Responsible Geocaching and educate new > cachers, we are going to set up the next meeting as an event cache, and > actively seek newer Geocachers as attendees. We will have a lot of details > to work out over the next several months, from content to whether we will > need to limit attendance, but as it comes together I'll keep you posted. > Don't be surprised if it's a year off, though. > > > > What pleases me most about the above idea (which came from Mary Estes) is > that it seems to indicate that most land managers no longer see Geocaching > as merely a threat against the lands they manage (a sardonic "thanks again" > to Christina Leonard of the "Republic" for originally provoking that > attitude), but rather as an activity that with some exceptions does have a > beneficial place on public lands. > > > > My heartfelt thanks to everyone who attended, cachers and land managers > alike. > > > > Steve > > Team Tierra Buena > > >