So what is the real problem? The fact that they were stolen, or the fact 
that they were stolen before you got there? :-P

I think many of these caches were hidden by newcomers who are learning 
some valuable (and painful) lessons. I figure that if a cache doesn't 
last long enough for me to find it, I probably wouldn't have been so 
thrilled to make the find anyway. Many's the time I have had to stop 
myself from including some sort of derogatory comment in my logs about 
the way some caches have been 'hidden'. I try to imagine that Dad 
decided to let Little Suzie pick the location, and that she is going to 
read my log about the cache. Nonetheless, I see there are some pretty 
lousy caches still out there, hanging on against all odds!

Steve


Roping The Wind wrote:

> Ok, this discussion is actually getting just a tad bit sidetracked 
> from what I intended. I am not necessarily saying that caches shouldnt 
> be placed in urban areas. What I am getting at is this:
>
> I have noticed ALOT of caches in my local area (east valley primarily) 
> that got archived before I had a chance to get to it. Sometimes they 
> lasted a few days, sometimes a couple weeks or maybe a month at most. 
> In the description of many of these caches, the cache owner put in... 
> "please be discrete and use stealth as there are alot of people 
> around"... or something to that extent. Then, the cache shows up 
> missing a week after it was placed. I mean, a cacher can only use so 
> much 'stealth'. I mean, you cant be invisible!!! Sometimes, just your 
> presence in a given location is enough to make people look over at you 
> and wonder what you are doing. (like security and police or nearby 
> business owners, etc). For instance, scrutinizing a utility/electric 
> box, etc. Invariably, someone is likely to give away the cache 
> location simply by being there and searching for the cache. Or... 
> maybe one cacher doesnt give the location away.. but a number of 
> cachers visiting the same area in a short period of time (like when 
> the cache has just become active and everyone is rushing to it for a 
> first find) gives the location away.
>
> Then, the cache owner leaves a note saying something like "I am 
> archiving this cache as it has come up missing"....
>
> Well, DUH!!!!  :)
>
> Generally speaking, caches placed nowadays dont have a life expectancy 
> that the older caches do (many of which are still active, over 3 years 
> now). Although there are many exceptions to that statement. The 
> reason, I beleive, is because there are alot more caches placed in 
> urban areas these days (where high concentrations of people are). 
> Seems like cache owners are trying to intentionally place caches in 
> areas where there are a high concentration of people with the intent 
> of adding a bit more challenge to the find. Then, the owner complains 
> that a cacher wasnt stealthy enough and gave the location away or 
> wonders why it came up missing in such a short time!!!
>
> Very recently, another cacher pointed out to me that many of the South 
> Mountain caches are still active. He named off a bunch of really old 
> south mountain area caches that I found well over 2 years ago... they 
> are still there. South Mountain is a very busy park and there are many 
> people in it at any given time of the day. Yet, many of these caches 
> stand the test of time.
>
> In closing.... (aka... Jerry Springers final thoughts)...
>
> Yes, a cacher needs to use some degree of stealth and be a bit 
> discrete so as not to give the cache location away. Even in a 
> wilderness type setting, you never know when someone might be hiking 
> by. Being discrete is part of the game of geoching.. to help preserve 
> the cache for many future cachers to find. But, lets use some common 
> sense here. If you stick your cache under a piece of playground 
> equiptment in a normally crowded city park... and then state "please 
> be discrete"..... you  aren't being realistic!!!
>
> Scott
> Team RTW
>
>
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