Geotoad has been a project with 4 years of work behind it. It's hardly a new thing, if geocaching.com had wanted to discuss the issue they had ample time to do so. I'm not saying they should be allowed to take all of gc.com's bandwidth that they want, i'm saying negotiation for the preservation of a good product would be a good idea. Perhaps gc.com could come to an agreement and made geotoad available to paying users. Instead they simply said "NO". As for "Protecting a business", frankly i'm not getting any profit from posting my caches on geocaching.com, if we want to take the purely capitalist model i'm working for GC.com for nothing. Since it's my effort to plant and list a cache I would hope that at least my opinion means something, but apparently it doesn't anymore, GC.com is going to take our data and do with it as they please. I haven't made a definate choice to take this action, i'm just putting out a warning ahead of time so you can hit those caches while they are still there. -- Lasivian Website - http://members.cox.net/lasivian/ E-mail - http://members.cox.net/lasivian/email.html ICQ# 3619356 --